From Frontlines to Homefront: A purple Heart's Path

Step into the shoes of warrior Zachery Tenholder, whose battles extended far beyond the battlefield. In "From Frontlines to Homefront: A purple Heart's Path," we share the story of a 101st Airborne veteran who faced the horrors of combat and now confronts the challenges of PTSD. With a Purple Heart as a symbol of sacrifice, this podcast delves into the veteran's journey of recovery, offering a glimpse into the hidden battles fought long after the war ended.

Transcript

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Suscribe, homie! Come back, Mike! So this is another episode of combat. Mike, we have our Fucking American hero, Zachary Tenholder from Kansas City, Let me pass on the mic to Tenholder, Tenholder tell introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself, brother. My name is Zachary Tenholder. I go by Zach and I was. And 101st Airborne, 2nd 502nd, bad boys. Fuck yeah. Alright like we traditionally do, let's dive into a fucking combat story, bro. That's what everybody wants to hear, and get shit off our chest. So if you want to share, a combat story that stayed with you or that fucked you up or that, you think, you should share. Obviously my biggest story is when my Humvee got cut in half, that always stuck with me, messed me up pretty bad. I took the 50 off the head. I've got shrapnel in my right leg and shit. And that always with me, my right leg still messes with me. I got a piece of shrapnel that still messes with me. The VA's offered to get it out, but my doctor says it's going to be too invasive for what good it's going to do. Did your did your nuts make it? Yeah. Barely. All right. Barely. I took, I did, I took the radios whenever we got hit the radio because it blew the firewall out. The radios blew between my legs. Holy damn. And then'cause we had just test fired the 50 like the day before or something like that. I unstrapped the barrels or the spare barrel. And the ammo cans. So when we got hit, they came up and hit me in the back of the legs. Damn, we should have had that stuff strapped down so a little bit of context on this mission. We were rolling into some fucking place. There was known combatants and cachet weapons, cachet and terrorist training camp, all this bullshit intelligence that we had received. And we were rolling deep in there. It was what? Fucking 20 vehicles or some shit like that. Yeah. And we were, yeah, I was lead vehicle in the whole thing. The tip of the spear. Yeah. I was a vehicle runner as well. Bro, I understand your pain. So these guys rolled up, it was like right over a fucking canal, right? Yeah, it was it was a choke point. Yeah. It was like, not that I don't know if it was a canal, but. I can't quite remember that. It was like a little levy. I think it wasn't going over this little levy. I can't recall either, but tell us what you remember about that day, man. We got staged up. We'd been staged up for what a day or two or something like that. Like getting ready to go do this mission and stuff. And yeah, we rolled up, like we got the call to take off. And yeah, we roll up and come up to that choke point. And I remember Biddle, he was in the back PC side seat, Biddle was, and he said something like, look, there's like a cassette tape. Cause there was a cassette tape that was all strung out all over the road. Yeah, like a broken old cassette tape. And I was paying attention to that. And I see that I look off to the left side, I see this goat farmer and. He looked like he was herding his goats really fast and I was paying attention to him and not the road. I was like watching him and trying to figure out why he was like freaking out. Like he was chasing his goats really fast and that was like like a sign. Like I was like, this guy is like being weird or I'm trying to find something to probably shut up with. Okay. But yeah, we came up to that choke point and I noticed that goat herder was freaking out and I just thought it was weird. And then we ran over that pressure plate and if they would have planted it the right way because they planted the pressure plate on the wrong side, that should have hit right underneath our vehicle, not underneath the engine. Holy shit. And so they would have hit right underneath the vehicle. There wouldn't have been any of this. Who else was in that vehicle with you? Nestor, Milam and Biddle and Emory and me. Did everybody get hit with shrapnel? No Biddle got lucky. He got lucky. But as soon as we got hit, he jumps out of the vehicle and then freaks out and then climbs back in. He's what? And I got knocked out. Like I got knocked unconscious because the 50 came off my dome and I woke up because my Rhino mount was hung up on the front of the turret, and he woke up and there's no turret shield. There's no 50, all that shit was gone and I didn't realize it. I look around for my weapon. My, my weapons got blown out, cause I had an AT 4 up there with me and then I had my M14, and fucking, no, I didn't have my shot. Sergeant Nestor had my shot, man. Mossberg and. I climb out, I realized that the Humvee's on fire. The front of the Humvee was on fire. And I remember our training, like training kicked in and that don't ever climb through, fire, try not to, if you can try not to climb through the fire. So I, and then I thought, shit, I knew. Through our training, that they like to ambush you afterwards small arms, I was scared. I was trying to make up my mind. It felt like an eternity, but I sure I made up my mind fast and I was like, I climbed through with the top and I climb up the top and I noticed that there's no turret shield and stuff, but I had dust in my eyes. I couldn't really see. And I almost jumped off the front onto the hood of the Humvee, but there was no. Front of the Humvee, it was completely gone. I remember that shit. Go ahead. So I climb up the back, and jump off the back. And I didn't realize I was jumping into a three or four foot. IED crater. And so I was not prepared for the extra, four foot drop off the back of the home B when I landed in the IED crater, it was so fucking hot, like from the explosion, I remember looking up and seeing, I think it was baby bear and the LT, I can't remember. But seeing them and I get on my LMR and I just get the fucking medics up here and get the fucking medics. Cause it was like dead radio silence. Yeah. And then I just got on my LMR and I'm like, get the fucking medics up here. And then I climb out of the hole. Cause I was worried about secondaries being in, being in the hole. And I remember seeing Emory on the side of the road and he's kneeled down. On his leg. And so he's taking a knee, he has his weapon and shit, like pulling security and I rush over next to him. I was like, are you hit? Are you hit? And he goes, yeah, my fucking leg, man, my fucking leg. And I'm like, looking at his leg and it's you're not hit. And he's no, the leg I'm propped down on. And he was had pieces of shrapnel sticking out of his leg like that. And he was kneeled down on them, like using those to support his weight. Oh, man. And I don't remember how long it took cause they said something like you had to wait a minute or something for secondaries. And so I, Get my IPAC or whatever it was called, your little medical pack that everybody carry. And I start trying to wrap Emory's leg and I'm fucking hurting him back because I'm trying to wrap the Curlex around the shrapnel. Just show me that shit in deeper. I'm shaking so bad. I'm just like jerking the fucking shrapnel around with the Curlex and he's fucking screaming at me. I was like, can you fucking do this yourself? And he goes, yeah, give me your fucking weapon. I'll pull security. I remember Milo got fucked up his leg too. Yeah. He, yeah, he was pinned in and the Humvee was still on fire a little bit. And I, that's one of the worst things I can remember is hearing him fucking just scream, like screaming and pain because he's, his legs got fucked up, but he also was getting burned. At the same time. And then... I seen Ginhart run by, and then Papa Bear run by, and Papa Bear went and did his big ass Cuban shit, and ripped the fucking steering column out of the fucking Humvee. Because Mylon was pinned in his chest because it blew the... Steering column back and pinned him into the humvee. Dude, so he went beast mode on that fucking steering wheel. Yeah, he went beast mode on the steering column and fucking ripped it. I can still remember hearing like the metal, I don't know if it was metal or plastic, it was just pop as he's ripping that motherfucker out of there. I remember when that fucking IED went off, I was in one of the rear vehicles, bro. You motherfuckers made me run like a fucking mile and a half, bro. That was probably the fastest mile and a half I've ever ran in my fucking life. We thought you guys were gone at first, man. We didn't know. We just hear the boom, then we just hear IED. And your fucking blood just fucking drops, man. That horrible fucking feeling is fuck. So everybody, man, gets down. We're sprinting. We we cut off one of the stretchers off the MRAP and we're fucking hauling ass. I think it was me, Chavez. I can't remember who else. And the birds got there pretty quick. I don't even remember being there for that long when the fucking choppers were already there. And we fucking helped get you guys on that fucking bird. I remember when they smiled them out. Funny part of it. He tells, he says today he still thinks it's fucked up, but now he sees a sense of humor because he got like racket on his face and shit, and it's like hip, some of his teeth and he was sitting there and we had them on the ground. I was helping like stuff, Curlex and one of his shrapnel wounds. I was stuffing Kurlex into there. I had three fingers inside of his fucking leg. I put Kurlex in there. You can say you've been three fingers inside of Milam. Yeah, I have. And he's laying there, and he And he's fucking screaming. And I just tried to make some kind of humor out of it. And I said, you have a really pretty smile right now. Fucking piece of shit. That's just not fucking funny. He was so fucking mad at me. It's like that. I guess I was wandering around. Let's say I got told this. I don't remember. I guess I was wandering around because I had a concussion, yeah, I was wondering around. They had to keep, they had to tell me like 10 times stop, sit down. Like you're fucking hit, man. Like you need to stop. Yeah. Is that definitely concussion, man? So you're out of it, bro. You know what I mean? That's good. But I got told that I don't remember that, but that's what it's like you teleport. Cause I went to an IED blast too. So you're just like, you're here and then you're there. Like in between, I don't know what happened. Yeah, I I didn't know, like seeing a flash of red and then that's. It until I woke up inside the Humvee on fire, like I, it's all I've seen was just a flash of red, like through the windshield, because like my bottom part of my peripheral vision, I just see a flash of red through the windshield. And then I remember Sgt. Nestor getting out and he's just lost because he, he took a piece of shrapnel like right through his ear, went right through his ear and he's walking around and he goes, where's my fucking weapon? And it was, he had my 12 gauge on the strap to his back. He lost his weapon in the fucking explosion, too. He wore my fucking weapon. He's losing his shit. I'm like, it's on your back, Sarge. He couldn't hear fucking shit. I'm like, it's on your fucking back. Trying to scream at him while I'm helping Emory. It's on your fucking back. And so he fucking messed up. Which, that's he got mad at me when we got to fucking Baghdad. We were in the chow hall the next day. I go, Sarge, I go, you know that piece of shrapnel went through your ear. I said, you realize if your head was here, he's fuck you. You don't think, I don't realize like your head would've been like right here, That is true, man. Get to the face. Yep. Man, you guys are blessed to make it through that man. All that shrapnel going in different directions, man. That's definitely a blessing, man, that you guys, it was concerning the fucking blast. You guys are blessed to have, the results that you did, man, but it was what three was. EOD told us it was three 120 millimeter Chinese artillery rounds stuffed in a 55 gallon drum with HME, ammonium nitrate. That is crazy, man. That is crazy. It was definitely a horrible moment, man. I, that, I remember we went back and staged. I think I, I don't recall how much time passed after that, but we had to push through so we ended up going over that shit, man. And I'm sure EOD stayed there and cleared the way and then we pushed through. I think I mentioned this in one of the other previous podcasts. Is that over that shit where they got blown up was a cemetery and that was a weapons cache, which ended up being true there was weapons and fucking artillery rounds and all kinds of shit in there, but the craziest shit man was. This was the first time we got introduced to the S. O. I. s, the Sons of Iraq. So we just hadn't heard about them, right? There was this thing that they're going to try and launch and we're like, all right, fuck it. They're, we're going to be working with the locals and they're going to be helping those guys and all that bullshit. Okay, that was literally, I almost shit my fucking pants, man, because I had no idea who the fuck they were. So we're walking up, we're dismounting and walking towards this fucking cemetery. And the word was that they were going to meet us there. So I thought it was maybe a group of five or fucking eight people. They were like 50 motherfuckers. No. They weren't IA. They were locals. Yeah, they're sons of Iraq. They were like it was like this new fucking neighborhood watch program that they launched. So basically the sheiks or the sheiks of the area, we're going to keep control of the neighborhoods. So that's where we were going to meet. So anyway, we walk up, man and all I see is just. He's 50 or more. It might have been less. I don't know, but that's how it felt to me. It was like fucking 50 motherfuckers with fucking big ass machine guns and belts over them. They might even had RPGs, but all of them definitely had crosshand RPGs or AK 47s. And I was like, I have my finger on on, on ready to be ready to go to fucking let's throw this shit down, man. And I'm looking at Leon because Leon. He was like, no he had an M4 at the time as well, but I, that shit, my made my asshole pucker a little. I bet it, but I never trusted those guys. And then there was like corruption with that stuff. Like when we gave, I remember, I can't remember the sergeant's name. He was a fucking headquarters guy, but we were taking him out to drop off money to one of the sheiks. And I was like, how much is in there? And he unzipped the bag. And he's that's, and it was a fucking quarter of a million dollars. Oh, yeah. And I was like, holy shit. I'd never seen that much money before, we did that shit like weekly or every other week. We rolled, I don't know, it might have been monthly, but I remember we did it often. We rolled out with, I thought it was suitcases, bags, I don't know what the fuck it was. There was definitely fucking wads of money in there, bro. Oh, they gave that to us? I seem to be like, you're only taking 10%. I'm keeping that shit. I don't know. I wouldn't have made it. Yeah. But I think that money helped turn the fucking page in Iraq, man. Cause shakes. We basically told them if we have one fucking round go off in your area of one bomb, you're not fucking getting paid So what basically happened is we out fucking bid al qaeda Basically that's what really fucking happened. She's fucking insane. Oh Let's transition into the next phase of the questions brother. So tell us about your return back to the States or what happened, when you returned and you, when you got out of the military, how was your experience, did after that injury, okay, let's do this after that injury, when did you get back? And then give us a fast summary of the rest of your military time and then transition into your civilian life. When I got back, it was awkward, it was awkward because then we started doing the fucking E I B stuff. get your, your e i b started doing that shit, but if you remember I fucking reenlisted. Yeah. When I was over and I changed my m o s it was, and 1414 Tango Patriot Missile Systems, Policious. Pogalicious, bud. We played Ultimate Frisbee for PT like once a week. Fuck yeah. It was fucking awesome. Or we played basketball for PT. Oh shit, yeah, it was. It was no more running fucking, six miles a fucking day, and when Nestor, he, he never fucking let us be pussies. He made us like Nestor is one of the fucking toughest motherfuckers that I've met. Yeah, he is definitely one of my, the best leaders I've ever had. I've had a few, but he is definitely one of the best ones. But yeah after that, when did you end your military time and what'd you do right after I ended it in 2000. It was May of 2012. Okay. Did you redeploy, did you do a second tour? No, I didn't. No, I didn't do redeploy. I was supposed to, I would, I could have, if I extended, but I wish I would have, because that deployment was to UAE, it was basically either on a beach, every fucking day playing Frisbee. I would have taken it right away. I'd be like, fuck it, let's go. And then you still get the hazard. They got hazardous duty pay and all that shit, and it's yeah. What? Who's shooting at you? And u a e. Nobody. Yeah. Hell yeah. So I had a quick story. Huh? I got a quick story. Go for it Baby Bear. I listened to his podcast, and he told a story that where I stepped on an I E D I forgot the mi, what the mission was, but we were clearing an A house to add an I e D in it. Like it was a booby trapped house. Yeah. Now remember you were walking outside, you had a metal detector, I'm pretty sure it was you. You had a metal detector and we were taught not to walk on foot pass. I was walking next to one of the TURPs. It wasn't Carlos. I can't remember which one it was, but Baby Bear said I stepped on an I E D in his podcast. Thing was I was right next to the interpreter when he stepped on it and It blew me sideways five foot and I was fucking rocked So, you know that I was just wanting to clarify that no it was not me that stepped on the IED What happened to the term God damn it. I can't remember his name. It wasn't Carlos though. Did he get fucked up? Yeah. Fucking fucked his leg up real bad. I don't remember that shit at all. And, but the thing was, is when they planted the IEDs or when they planted the IED, they planted it with the charge. Like on the top and not the bottom. So when it blew up, it blew downwards, but it still blew out. And it just knocked me on my ass. And I just remember Nestor screaming, get the fuck down. And I just took a knee. I was like, I'm not fucking taking another step. Fuck this. Cause it was one of the doorbell IDs. Okay. Okay. Holy shit. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. It was like. Another pressure plate, but it was a doorbell like you couldn't even have known that you were going to step on it So how many fucking times did you get blown up dude twice? Okay and then there was one fucking Time the fucking eod set off a big charge And I was we were too close to it and it fucking I was up in the turret, you know I wasn't inside the truck and I wasn't named kate defilade doing none of that and That fucking concussion from the blast, knocked me backwards and made my vision blurry and stuff. So I'm going to jump out like three times. So knock me back. We were too close. That's crazy, man. All right. So 2012, man tell us about your experience getting back to the States. Transition basically back into like civilian life. It's been, it's still been hard, even years, this many years later, it's. But what did you do? As soon as you get out, that you got out did you try going to school? Did you get a job? Did you relax for a while? I got a job. No, I got a job. And I was finishing, refinishing houses doing drywall and, taking rundown houses and With this company and fixing them up, for them to sell them. But it was down in Texas. I was living down in Fort worth at that time. Oh, nice, man. Nice. Nice. So how long did you do that for? I did that for shit. I don't know, a couple of years and then I moved back home to Kansas City and got a job bartending. Okay. And I bartended for, I don't know, years. I did that for a few years. I loved it though. I loved bartending. It was like badass. And I got a fucking... Throw people out and, I don't know if you remember back in the day in the barracks, ask Malina, ask all those guys, I was known for fighting and shit, a lot of fights. I remember my very first count negative counseling statement. Papa bear gave it to me. I ended up in a fight. I broke my thumb. I broke my toe. Both my eyes were damn near full shut. I got the shit beat out of me and pop up in the Statement he put in there. He goes, 10 holder. We understand if fighting is a necessity, but when it becomes a weekly habit, I still have the negative counseling statement. I saved that damn thing. My first one. Then it was his, when it becomes a weekly habit. I'm proud of that shit. I'm proud of that shit. Nice man. Fuck. Yeah. So let me ask you this man. So when you get out of the military, man did you have a tough time? Was it tougher then? Is it tougher now? Cause I can tell you, I had some fucking anger issues when I got out, but I didn't realize I had them, like my wife probably, got the worst of it, in the beginning. And thanks to her, I realized, it was, I had a fucking problem. You know what I mean? So I don't know if you had a similar experience. Yes, I've lost because of my anger and shit, and my anxiety and, PTSD and stuff. I've, I lost my wife, I lost my kids, quit talking to me for two years almost as I was just fucking angry all the time. So my kids said they didn't want to live with me anymore. And they moved to with their grandma. Yeah, because he did not want to live with me because I had fucking temper problems and I was I took it out on my family, and that's a it's really shitty. Yeah, I lost a lot of stuff. I lost a lot of friends. I lost, my family. A lot of my family quit talking to me because I had, drinking problems and my, I was constantly in fucking getting into fistfights and shit. If obviously, it could, if you could go back, what would you do different? I would have went to rehab. For my drinking, because every time something bad would happen, I would jump down in that rabbit hole and, into a bottle, I would jump into a bottle and I would live in it for, months at a time, I lost. You remember I lost my mom. She was murdered. Yeah. You know why we were in and shit. And then my dad died of a heart attack. And then my sister was murdered and my brother was murdered. Like it's fucking messed up. I know. That's crazy. I've lost three people in my family due to fucking somebody else killing them. Yeah. I'm sorry to hear that, brother. Yeah. And it Like every time something bad like that would happen, like I was gone for months, and it'd be six months before I realized that I needed help, and then I figure out how to control my drinking. Okay. But I'm still drinking a lot. Yeah. So where did you go for help? To be I used to be a and stuff like The counselors and stuff and I've even called the crisis hotline and stuff a few times because whenever I'm having like panic attacks and shit, like I'm getting overwhelmed and, but there's local, like I go to a local clinic. I don't go to the Kansas City VA. I live outside, a little bit outside of Kansas City, but I go to a local clinic. And there's, they have a mental health thing there that also deals with addiction problems. I've talked to them, whenever it gets, whenever I don't ever feel like it gets out of hand, but. My family will sure in the hell let me know, like you're getting out of here. So I have you reduced the drinking a lot or have you tried to quit or what is your mission on that? I've slowed, like I used to just drink shit I'd finish about a fifth of tequila every day, and Jose, I'd finish about a fifth of Jose every day. And now I've. Completely stopped. Or do you like to finish half of a Martinez? Half of a Martinez? What the hell is that? Or a full Martinez? A full Martinez. Is that like a Marty? I don't get what you're saying. You can just do a quarter if you want, but I'm just asking you. But then I was like, I got really bad on drugs and shit, like doing heavier stuff, like putting shit up my nose, I was doing a lot of fucking ecstasy, a lot of acid. I'm changing stuff, and that wasn't good. That just makes it worse. It makes the drinking worse. I was drinking way more on that. And I introduced even more than one thing into your body and it makes you go even crazier. Yeah, I know. I trust me. I know. So I've gotten off the. I don't do the hard drugs anymore. I smoke pot, not gonna lie about that. I smoke a shit ton of pot. Yeah, no, that's good. There's a lot of vets that smoke pot. You know what I mean? I was gonna say, Joe had, some drinking issues back in the day. You wanna share a little bit about that? I'm about the same thing as you went through. I got out, I didn't know what to do. Really heavily, just like you. I was never really too much into drugs or anything, but my drinking was out of control. I was more of a beer guy, 18 pack, 24 pack, almost a day, every other day, just drinking, just trying to get, suppress the memories, obviously, and stuff like that. Like I said, I was married too, lost that too, whatever, anger issues as well but then, I just realized like, hey, something's not right I have to do something about this, if not... I'm just going to stay here. What you did too. You went and sought help. I'm seeking help now. I'm still drinking quite a bit, but I'm trying better because I just lost, got out of a relationship that was good for me. She's the one that. Help me stop drinking and then I fucking help me stop the hard alcohol and stuff and trying to help me But I ended up fucking that up because my anger issues and my anxiety I would get so damn jealous and stuff I like with my anxiety. I just I haven't been able to trust people, and that's really It's not that we don't trust Basically, your partner, you trust other people around them, would you say you don't trust people around because I think us, us infantry guys, we tend to like, since we were in that brotherhood. And now where you have somebody under you, you want to take care of them. And when you're not there, you're like, fuck, they're defenseless against other people. You just want them to be aware. That's what you say. You want them to pay attention, but they don't have the attention we have. Or what we're looking at. No, I know. I get a hundred percent what you're saying. I get, I still get nervous, especially when I'm out with my kids, my daughter, I have a 19 year old daughter and a 16 year old daughter and they are, I get told all the time that they're very pretty and stuff. It pisses me the fuck off when somebody tells me, like that, our age or, even older Oh my God, that's your daughter. She is gorgeous. I'm like, don't you say that about my daughter? Fuck you. You're fucking teeth. Don't be looking the same way, bro. I had a baby girl as well. So I'm on your side. I will. Yeah, no. So let me ask you this brother. What do you do to keep busy, man? I shoot a lot of pool, a lot of pool. I was on three pool league teams at one time, which didn't help with my drinking because I'm back at the, I'm back at a bar, on a pulley and that's three times a week, at least that, I'm getting sloshed, more than just like a beer buzz, or a beer drunk, I'm getting, knocking out shots after shot and it just. I realized that I had to cut that back, but I shoot a lot of pool and, I hang out with my kids. I try to hang out with my kids a lot more now and stuff because they didn't talk to me for a while because of my shit. So now they've gotten a little older and a little more understanding. Of my problems, okay. So what, so I like asking this question, man what is your, why, man, what is your reason to keep going, brother? Like why do, why would you want to keep going? What motivates you? Who is obviously my children, I got three kids. I got to also, I got a 16 year old daughter, 19 year old daughter and a 12 year old son, and they keep me going, and. I know that how it feels to lose, I've lost both of my parents and I know that, like I've tried ending it before. This is something that I'm okay with talking about. I tried ending it one time. I swallowed like 50 fucking sleeping pills and just said, fuck it. I woke up on the bathroom floor. I didn't, I don't know how I lay. I just remember laying down in bed and saying, fuck it all. And then I woke up on the bathroom floor and when I woke up, my first thought was, oh, fuck, it didn't work. Yeah, no, because I tried, I'll tell you that. I'll tell you this, brother. You're here for a reason, man. You know what I mean? I'm glad it didn't happen, man. And I honestly, I fucking hate when I have to go to a funeral and I hope that shit doesn't happen. Again, I want to tell you that I'm here for you. I will always be here for you and always remember why you need to stay on this fucking earth. So I took one of my sergeant majors advice. I'm one of the liberal briefs. We're getting out is like suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems. Cause all problems are really temporary. There's nothing that so I guess some of my Marine Corps buddies, we all have that I get stuck with us because, that's what he told me before we got out because he got moved, how they move you from different units. I think like 40 of us were getting out. So he had the last talk with us. So I guess that's stuck with most of us like, just keep going don't. Because he had some of his friends do the same thing, but it's no, you guys are too young to be, you guys, I wish we didn't have to go through this war because you guys are kids. He was already like, I want to say 45, 50, so he had already lived, And that's what he went through the shit. Yes, exactly. So You take care of us. I know one thing I noticed, i've called the county, you know I called that crisis hotline like three times, you know when I was having you know in the middle of the night, and I didn't want to wake somebody up and But they're just like robots, they have their list of questions, but they're like robots. It's not like Talking to somebody, but I found it a lot easier if I just call my boys. That'll settle me down a lot more, calling them brothers. And then that'll settle me down a lot more than call them one of those fucking crisis hot I think you should, if you need it, call them, but it didn't help me only, I have my counselor, he helps me, but most of the time when I'm like ready to just lose my shit, it's, calling one of my boys and, like you or, or Malina or if I can off key, call them one of those guys, that's good. Let me ask you this, if, is there one certain thing that you would say fucks you up or triggers you or is it different things or what is like the thing that's fucking bothering you? Just not like I get upset with myself the most because if I can't, I'll realize that I'm not in control and that, that scares me more than most things. If I'm not even in control of myself. But if I'm not in control of a situation like that scares of living shit out of me, I haven't, I can count on one hand how many times I've been to Walmart. I count on probably two hands actually, but how many times I've been to Walmart in the last three years, I can't put myself in that. I don't feel like I can control that situation. So I avoid it, which it's, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but I don't let my, I try not to let myself get put into a situation where I can't have control. Do you think? Are you like that without the alcohol? I don't know, I'm like... Thing is I'm a lot more relaxed whenever I'm drunk. I don't, cause I just don't have to give a shit, I don't give a shit whenever I'm drunk and shit, I don't care if I'm in, about to grab with three, but when I'm sober, I avoid, I avoid those situations, but whenever I'm drunk, I'm all okay with, losing control, I'm okay with losing control. Yeah. I think I said this on another episode also is. One time I was driving cross country with Leon and this motherfucker, he doesn't smoke anymore, but back in the day, this motherfucker was baked. So I was driving, right? And I was bobbing, weaving through traffic, how I usually do or used to do. And there was this car that just wouldn't fucking move, man. And then this other motherfucker wanted to pass me too. And I'm like, dude, there's nowhere I can fucking go. I was getting fucking pissed off. So Leon was like, man, just move over and let him fucking go. And I'm like, what? Just let him go. So I move over and this motherfucker, eventually that other car moves over to, and this motherfucker moves over and I'm like, and he basically tells me, did anything happen that are you like, are you fucking hurt? I'm like, no. I'm like, he basically made it a point to where just let her fucking go. You know what I'm saying? And I realized to myself, I've got all worked up for nothing. I don't even know that son of a bitch. They didn't even hear you. They didn't hear me. They don't know anything. I was about to fucking flip this motherfucker off and talk shit. And for what? You know what I'm saying? And then you just got to remember the three fucking C's. Cool, Common, Collected. It doesn't fucking matter. It's not important. Now, if somebody comes to you directly at Walmart and fucking pushes you or talks shit in your face. But I understand why you don't vote because I used to be the same way. I did not like to go to public places and what helped me was my job because I became a sales rep through a painting company and I had to be a little bit. More outspoken than that helped develop me getting out of my little fucking shell because man and when I got out 2009 all the way to 2015 bro I never left my fucking house I didn't even have family come over birthday parties I didn't do none of that you know so I can relate to that but when I started having my kids I was like you know what something's got to change like I don't want to be like this I don't want my kids to fucking see me like this so that's when I got the job and I little by little man I started You know, and I still consider myself an introvert person, even though, I do what I do, but outside of my little circle, I don't really talk to anybody, but I developed this need, me and Joe, to help fucking veterans, like that helps me. Calm the void that I have if I can help somebody man, I fucking love that shit You know what? But i'm proud of you for doing this shit, I mean because I think it does help, just being able to talk and shit and but there is a well back to the driving thing I haven't driven in almost four years. Okay. I have not driven because being in a vehicle is one of my biggest triggers actually, like I don't know if it's because I was blown up and I don't know, but being in a vehicle scares me the fuck to death. Like it does, even if I'm, I'd like it, liked it better whenever I was driving, but I try to avoid being in a vehicle for most, at all costs for the most part, like I'm just, it scares the living shit out of me. Yeah. Okay. So how do you get around? What, how do you get your basic, necessities? I have, there's like a few people that are, that I trust and stuff that help me out, help me and, I obviously pay, pay them to, get me shit, I pay, to get me shit. So only time I really leave the house is if I just decide I want to go have a drink. Other than that, or I take my, like I try at least once once a month or something like that, maybe more to take my kids out to eat, like at a actual restaurant, not know some, not fast food. Try to go to restaurant. You're always aware of the road. Cause I had had the same problem being an ID blast. I was more looking at if I would see something on the road, I'd be like, what is that? What is that? And I'd be questioning it, but I'd be like, calm down. You're not there anymore. But I'm pretty sure you did that or you still do that. Yeah. Looking at stuff, I still do that. I'll see something on the side of the road and it's, I don't know if it's a flashback or anxiety spike in your mind. It's nothing but your training triggers. Everything to be like, that's an idea or that's something because I do it all the time to this day, but like Nelson said, I have to drive all the time. I have to do stuff and I can't let that impede me. It can't let that stop me from accomplishing what I need to do. So let me ask you this, but we obviously all have issues, right? And my way of thinking is. Where there's a problem, there's a solution. You know what I'm saying? So let me ask you this question. Would you like to be able to drive again? Would you like, we know you can't right now, but would you like to be able to do those things? Or at least, A little bit more, maybe not being like a social freak, but at least be able to interact a little bit more or, leave your home a little bit more, interact more with the people you love. At least I'm not saying go make friends with fucking YMCA and shit. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's fucking embarrassed, like I've embarrassed, like my ex, now I embarrassed her so many times, out in public where we'd be at like, I don't know if you guys have price choppers down there, but it's just a grocery store. It's not like a Walmart. It's just a grocery store. And. Like we would go, I was comfortable going into there to get stuff and Walmart, but somebody would be blocking the aisle and then somebody would come up behind me and then they're like right behind me. And then there's somebody in front of me, not moving. And I'm like, just get the fuck out of the way. And I would blow up. Yeah. And then again, it's to the point where she just hands me the key. She's just go wait in the fucking car. Just go wait in the car. Because I was embarrassing for her. Yeah. Which I'm embarrassed for my, I embarrasses me that I acted like that, but I couldn't help. It's like I couldn't help it. You know what I mean? Like I had it just something triggered and I just, I'll fucking scream at an, 80 year old lady, get the fuck out of my way. Because I'm panicked because there's somebody behind me and then you're blocking the fucking aisle. Yeah. And I feel you. I understand you too, but you gotta just, sometimes you gotta just calm down, bro. Like I've learned that he's having to help me cause I'm the one that implodes all the time when we're dealing with customers. Like I tell them like, Hey Nelson, you gotta figure this out, bro, because I'm about to explode. Yeah. So obviously I got a limit too, but I'm a little bit more chill. Like in our painting company, we always got to be professional and some customers, they're people, like Some people are just rude, you know what I'm saying? So you would think you would want to respond in, in, in the same manner that they're responding to you too, but in a professional setting, you just can't do that, so a lot of times we have to bite our tongue and be professional. It's crazy to do sometimes, but we have to do it. But how do you think, what can you do to start making things better, bro? Continue or continue to seek help because there for a while I fell off the grid, like I ended up homeless, for a while and that that sucked pretty bad, and I don't ever want to go back to that. Yeah. I was literally homeless and shit. People started to, getting tired of me, crashing on their couch, shit like that. And because I was like, I had a, like at one point I had a half gallon of vodka and a case of fucking monsters right next to all my dad's couch. I slept on my dad's couch and I had it underneath the coffee table. I had a half gallon vodka. And the moment my eyes opened, it was. Fucking chugging, take a big old swig of the vodka, drink the monster, and that's always bad. You shouldn't mix the energy drinks with alcohol. It's not a good mix. Yeah. Yeah. So how can you make things better, bro? I don't, I know we seek help, but what other steps can you do to improve? I'm trying to think. I don't know. I'm going to tell you what I did too, because I was in the same boat, the exact same boat when I did, I would actually listen to what the VA the social workers, the psychiatrist, I was like, all right, I would go to, but I'd be like, yeah whatever you go through the motions. But then when I actually started to listen to them and to like how they would tell me like, okay, just once you get angry, just stop think of what you're going to do. Your next step is relax. Think before you act in a sense, but I would start to do those things. And I said, kept applying them. It actually helped me to like. Control my anger. Sometimes, yes, I do boil over. It's I guess you could say it's like a meter, it just, it just keeps going until you explode, but the more I listened to them and the more I applied those steps. of what they were telling me, because I was actually listening. I was able to crawl out of that place, and just, I'm not saying that I let my guard down, my guard's still there, but my mind is alright, calm down, you're not in Iraq, calm down, you're not in a war zone, calm down this and that I, you have to talk to yourself, you can't just be exploding everywhere you go, because Like you said, you won't fit anywhere. Yeah. So basically, and I can, I guess vouch for what he's saying that like I've been to the VA, seen the shrink shit a little time time psychiatrist, psychologist, pills, the whole nine fucking yards. And this is what I think, because they give, there's different fucking strategies or, activities that they make you do them. There's one where they, you got to write shit, shit that you saw, what fucking bothers you. Correct. And this lady wanted me to do that ten times. And I'm like, what the fuck is the point of this shit? You know what I mean? She was all like, you learn you train your clock and it's shit right there. I got a fucking phone call. But now one thing I have been doing is actually my daughter just helped me out with this because of my chicken scratch. But I've been keeping a journal. Okay. That's good. That they. Recommended that I do, like my counselor recommended that I, whenever you're having problems, start writing them down, write down how you feel, write down what what is the problem and stuff like that. See, and then, and let me tell you this, what I was going to start to say is I didn't finish that fucking activity. I probably went maybe four times and I was all like, this is fucking stupid. And then I went again. And then this other lady made me write a shorter version of this shit. And I'm like I have a lot of fucking things that, that fuck me up. It's not just one thing. And then she was like, okay, we'll start with the scariest thing that that, triggers you. All right. So the point I'm trying to make is that I've done a lot of these fucking activities and I can actually honestly say that they do help. I'm not going to say that they completely erase. Or the feeling or, the fuck up sensation, but it helps, it's a step forward to dig yourself out of this fucking rabbit hole, you know what I'm saying? When you go to the VA, try man, try to do what the fuck they tell you to do. If it's that ten fucking visit activity, fucking try at least half, if not, I went only, I'm four out of ten bro. I went four times, four separate times to the VA. I finished twice, but the last time I went was when I was like, okay, something has to change, like it has to come from you, from me or whatever, but you can't just go there and sit there and be like, blah, blah, blah. That's, it wasn't a one time deal. Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, I'm here. I'm going to fix myself. No. Yeah. You can't go in there with the mentality. Man. This fucking civilian doctor doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. They don't. You have to accept that they will never know what the fuck we went through. They will never understand, but they can guide you so that you can understand how to fucking help yourself. You know what I mean? So that's the trained professionals. They don't know shit about combat, but they know the mind. They're professionals about how the fucking mind works, the chemical balance in the fucking mind. And little by little, those fucking activities, bro. They work there. There's sometimes when the death anniversaries come when fucking dates where you guys fucking got blown up. I think about all that shit, the triggering that fucking sucks. But there's one thing that I wrote down here in my notes is you cannot blame civilians for what the fuck we went through, bro. Some people are ungrateful. Some people, they don't even know how fucking good they have it, they're clueless to what the fuck we went through and how beautiful of a life they have to be breathing this fucking air, But it's not their fault and we can't blame them for that shit, so we can't change them either We can't change them. So can't do anything about it before You help anybody, bro. You gotta help yourself. Yeah, that's one thing, like the coun one of my counselors told me after I get off work, when I was married and stuff she asked me if it would be alright if I brought my wife in, on to sit in one of my counseling sessions. And I said, yeah, and my counselor straight up asked her, she goes, after he gets off work, you just Give him an hour. Just give him an hour. Just give him an hour to decompress. And that, that helped out a lot, just taking it just a moment. Like I have notes wrote down to, stuff I want to talk about, but just that hour of peace, not having the kids up my ass, not fucking, just, yeah, just unwinding and that actually helped out a lot, just having one hour, just one fucking hour to myself. I ain't got to worry about work. I don't have to worry about shit. That really does help if, and if I would tell, other vets out there, if you're having problems, just. Take one hour, one hour out of your day to just for yourself. That helped me out a lot. That's good. Good advice. Actually. But my counselor asked my wife and I was like, I was shocked because she's can you just give him one hour a day? And I was like, Whoa, lady, can you shut the fuck up for an hour, please? Respectfully, man. Respectfully. No, but thank you for, I want to just, if there's any wives out here, any spouses. That listened to his podcast, thank you for everything that you guys went through put up with And those that are still putting up with shit. Thank You know and we have to recognize and give them a lot of props man. You know to all those ladies And others that take care of their spouses, but so let me ask you this brother. One thing that, that keeps us going, like I said, is we keep busy, man. And I was telling Joe before we started this is one of the things that, cause I was saying, okay, how am I not fucked up anymore? It's because I'm super fucking busy. I don't have time to stop to think, to get down. And if I do, I have to be doing something. You know what I'm saying? So Olfke was in a rough fucking place. I know I talk, and when I went to visit him, bro, like he was, he was struggling, and that motherfucker got his shit right with his job. He's golfing. I'm not saying his fucking life is rainbows and sunshine now, but. He's trying, you know what I'm saying? So yeah, he seems to be doing a lot better than he was a year ago. I know that I talked to him, I talked to him quite a bit. My best advice brother, is you have to find a way to keep busy, man. Do something brother. You know what I mean? Something, I know you said you like to shoot pool, but I don't know if you're able to fucking get a job fucking the V F W, American Legion and Amvets, bro. Like there, there's. It helps them. I didn't know shit about the VFW. I went in there in Corpus one time. And I sat down at the table and ordered a beer. I was drinking a beer. And there was three Vietnam vets sitting down at the bar. And they're like, hey, what the fuck are you doing over there by yourself? I'm like, shit I'm sorry. They're like, get the fuck over here. I'm like, alright, cool. So I sit down, these are old motherfuckers, like 70 year olds, man. And then they start bullshitting. Like we were back in we were 20 and I felt like we were all youngsters, but we're fucking bullshitting, man. Like it was fun. I kept going a little and something you can try, but I'm a member, I'm a member of the AM vets and then I'm also, I'm a. Lifetime member of the DAV yeah, DAV, Disabled American Veterans. Okay. Like my grandfather ran the, like he controlled part, like a big section and like he was the commander of a huge section here in Missouri. Nice. And whenever I first got out, he I, he, that's what one of the things he did for me, because he was like a really high, but he paid my lifetime membership due. That has tell you. That's good. So me and Joe are actually part of Amvets too. We're the commander and vice commander for Ambits. Here in our area. So we're about what, three months, three months. So we're trying to get this up and running. Cause this place is about four or five years that they started here, but it's still being developed. So we're trying to get that up and running, but yeah, brother, I don't know if you ever thought about getting a job here. I've been thinking about bartending again. Cause like I said, I loved it. And It gave me like something to do every day and then that kept me from drinking, even though I was at a bar, but you can't drink on the job and shit, you know, but. That helps. And I've been thinking about getting back into bartending, actually thinking about going to, I called them up the can, the Kansas city international school of bartending and just going to school for it and maybe getting because I worked at an am vets bar, like how I became a member there, I worked at an am vets bar. And thinking about, I could get like a high end job, making, making Skrilla, and so I don't know, it's something I've been thinking about, but just, in my opinion, working as a bartender, slippery slope, you know what I'm saying? You're going to be surrounding yourself with shit that you have a problem with. So just think about that, I don't know if you thought about going to different, to a different trade, maybe something else that interests you. Welding. I was a welder for a while. Okay. I was a welder for a while actually. Were you like a part time welder or were you a licensed welder? Licensed. I went to the iron, I got licensed through the iron workers. And stuff, but I didn't really like that. They treated me like, I don't know, my local iron workers, they, because I came in as a new kid, they treated me like shit and, like the old guys would fuck with me and stuff that had been there for. And they're like, Oh, you're new. And it's you have no idea. I was constantly getting into it with them. It's you have no idea what I've been through. And I, just going back to that little thing, bro, they're never going to understand, and we can't blame civilians. We just got to, like I told off key. I remember telling off key this, it's a fucking game and you got to learn how to play the game because they only know one side of the game. Our fucking game is way bigger than theirs and their game is smaller. We have to learn how to play their level and stay in their level. You know what I'm saying? So we just gotta adapt and overcome brother. But so we're getting close to the end here, bro. I don't know if you want to talk about some other shit that you got written down there. I'm going on an hour and seven minutes. Okay. I don't know not too much. Just give a shout out to a few people. I forgot, like Shannon Martin, knock, getting hard, he's, he hooked me up with a counselor. He knows I haven't been able to get ahold of her yet, but he said that she's really good. So I'm going to go ahead and give that a try. He said that she's really good though. But a shout out to at least them because they've helped me like, answer my phone call at two o'clock in the morning, whenever I'm, in tears and losing my shit. So I just wanted to give a shout out to them. It was good, man. Shout out to Ginnard, man. He's a good fucking medic too, man. I got was able to get fucking Leon help get patched up and fucking push me away when I fucking froze when I didn't need to, but thank God for Ginnard, man. only other things I have fucking written down are just a few things from Iraq, like whenever I remember the, when the IA commander got his leg blown off. That was something that I still think it's not funny, but I remember him laying there on the fucking ground. He stepped on an IED. And he started fucking screaming. His soldiers started crying. Wow. Started crying around him. And I just remember him fucking screaming and I asked the turf what he said, and he was telling him to stop fucking, it's not their fucking leg. Shut up and stop being, basically you're making, you're looking like pussies and in front of the American because I asked the turf, I was like, what's he saying? And he was screaming at him in his fucking legs blowing off. Telling them to quit being pussies. At least one of them wasn't a fucking pussy. Yeah. Yeah, man. That's about it. I remember when you got hit though, that was like the scariest fucking thing. That was the first time I ever experienced combat was whenever you got hit. When I got hit? Yeah, like that was like my first memory of like real combat was whenever, we were in the lead truck and then fucking your truck got hit by an IED. I'm pretty sure it was your truck, right? Yeah, it was my Yeah. And then fucking, I remember that and it was like radio silence. And I'm like, we were lead truck and I'm screaming down to everybody. It was cover your fucking sector, cover your fucking sector. And off you scream back, I'm covering my fucking sector. And I'm screaming at Nestor and I'm like, do we keep pushing? Cause you push through the ID, blast it's do we keep pushing or should we stop? What the fuck are we doing? And he was just dead silent. And I was freaking the fuck out. So I'm just screaming at everybody inside the truck, which got me a fucking sector. Yeah, that shit was crazy. That Chavez got knocked unconscious, man. And he should've gotten put in for a purple heart. His dumb ass was unconscious for a fucking whole 10, 10, 15 seconds, man. I was punching his ass to wake up. Finally did. I remember Bowen. I Bowen was in your truck. M. Old, old I'm dying. But he told me he remember, I remember laughing at him because he told me, he said he just put after the i e D went off, he just put his head up against the window'cause he thought he was dead. Because I was So he conscious. He was conscious and thought he was dead. he was conscious. He's just no, I was dead, man. Fuck. Didn't even get you didn't take Nora. Nothing, man. Whatcha talking? But it's, I guess since we've all been in Id blast, like you don't know what's you don't even know what happened. Yeah, you said earlier. That people were telling me like, what are you doing? And you're just walking around, yeah. His name was good. He was like, so you got off your truck and you were just walking around. I'm like, fuck, I don't know, bro. I woke up like next thing you know, I'm like in the prone. You're dazed and confused. Yes. That's crazy, man. But what are I brother man? I just, I'm here for you, bro. And you're gonna get through this, man. You know what I'm saying? You are, you got to stay busy, brother. You got to find something that interests you and you got to do it. For your kids, bro. Your kids fucking need you. We need you. You know what I'm saying? And it's not easy. It's not easy. And it's not gonna be easy, but One day at a time. One fucking day at a time, man. Start changing shit. You know what I mean? I'm not gonna tell you not to drink, cause you're still gonna fucking do it. If you can, try. If not, reduce the amount of drinks that you fucking drink. Go walk, go run, go to a fucking gym. Do something. I haven't fucking ran since I got out of the army, and I made myself a promise that I wasn't fucking going to. I ran too many damn miles to get out of the army. Yeah, I do. I do fish and stuff. I do have other hobbies, I like fishing and hunting. I hunt and shit. So that's good. That's good. That's good. That's good to go. You have my number. You can call me whenever you want. You know what I'm saying? Reach out. We're also the combat Mike. Facebook messenger, Joe and I have access to that. So whenever you need to reach out, just send us a message. And I don't give a fuck what time of the day it is or night or morning. You call me. do you have an appointment set up for the VA? What are your plans? Oh, my like with my counselor, I can call up there anytime. And if they're in the middle of it, if he's he or she, depending on which one, if they're in the middle of a meeting or appointment, they'll, we'll call me back as soon as they're done with their appointment and bullshit with me, let me put it to you this way. Your mission is to get better. This is a direct order from your old NCO. Your fucking mission is to get better, motherfucker. That is your mission. You understand? Yes, I know. I do know, trust me. I don't like being... I don't like being with so much anxiety. That's my biggest problem is my anxiety. It's not really depression, but it's the anxiety from the PTSD and shit, so just remember three fucking C's, bro. Cool, calm, and collected. Cool, calm, and collected. If you feel like you're gonna blow up, just walk away. Bite your tongue. Think, okay, what the fuck is about to happen? What am I about to do? Consequences. Consequences. Exactly. Just walk away, bro. That's shit. I do that with my wife all the time. She starts going, I'm like, peace. Just walk out. I'd rather not say anything. They say something I'm going to regret or do something I'm going to regret. You know what I'm saying? I, cause I, that's explosive anger. I used to punch walls, fucking punch windows, throw shit. I was bad back then, bro. I've come a good fucking ways, man. Swap away bro. If that's if at least, start there, but develop a game plan, man. Don't just be like, I can, like we know you can call your counselor, but what is your plan of action to start to get better? Cause eventually you're going to have grandbabies, I know your kids are still young, but eventually, that's one of my dreams is to be able to have my grandchildren, Thanksgiving, Christmas, that is one of my dreams. As a parent and hopefully one day a grandfather. So you gotta, your kids still need you, brother. They're still gonna, I know. so start plan of action. Reach out, stay busy. That's the only thing I can I can tell you personally, I've worked for me, man. I, we have the painting company. We're involved with ambits. We run a fucking operation, veterans Paint Project. Fucking, we have this podcast, we, we just stay fucking busy, bro. We don't stop. That's. One thing is like we've been through so much. So this part is I'm gonna say it's easy, but it's doable. You step by step. Just get it going. It's hard. It's gonna suck. You're gonna be in positions you don't want to be sometimes, but you have to do you have to be there. Like nothing said part of his old job. Part of now is part of my old job too, I had to deal with people all day as well, so you have to talk to them. I know, I didn't want to talk to no one as well. Make yourself, try to make yourself do comfortable shit, bro. To get better for your kids. Go to Walmart by yourself, don't tell anybody. Just fucking go. Go all the way, walk all the way in the back, grab a fucking gallon of milk, carton of eggs. Come back and that's it. Baby steps, bro. Fucking baby steps. You know what I'm saying? I said, it doesn't mean walk in Walmart, all the aisles, just go get what you get and boom, get out and you'll see how you'll start to develop. I don't want to say trust. Obviously you don't trust anybody, but you start seeing little by little that you can do these things. You don't have to be angry. You can actually function. You got this brother. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm gonna try. I'm still here. I'm trying, that's right. That's one thing like I'm, I just went on a fishing trip and stuff with my son and I, I think about how, if I would have, those pills would have worked, the way I wanted them to at that time, then I wouldn't have just got, just a few weeks ago, gone on that fishing trip with my son, that's right. There you go. And those are memories that you're gonna continue to build, bro. And that, that you're gonna have a positive impact on your children, brother. You know what I'm saying? So that's good shit. I'm happy you did that. All right, brother I want to thank you. It takes some balls to come on here and talk about this shit, bro So I want to thank you for doing this, and also Anybody listening going through some tough shit? There's a hotline that 10 older talked about it's a you dial 988 and then you press one. I've never called But if it gets down to that, call somebody, call that hotline, call your battle buddies, probably the most effective thing you can do, but seek him and get better. I agree. Alrighty. What's up? I said thank you guys. Our pleasure, brother. Thank you. So this concludes our fucking combat. Mike thank you guys for listening and hopefully, we make a difference. And until next time, love you brother. Love you too. Thank you guys. All right. Peace out. Suscribe, homie! Come back, Mike!